The assertion by the right-wing blogger and self-confessed "racialist" Laurence Auster that Nietzsche's mental illness was a result of nihilism is laughable. Sadly, there are religious apologists who like to attack Nietzsche (because he was an atheist) and will swallow any negative opinion of Nietzsche whether it makes sense or not! Here’s a typical exchange...
The
three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted
by A Religious Apologist on 12 Dec 2013 at 3:42AM
I admit that this source is "conservative" and thus condemns "liberals"
in ways perhaps not justified, but the overall scope of the
presentation brilliantly exposes Nietzsche for who he is, what his
philosophy actually represents, and ultimately the void that most
likely led to his madness when he increasingly recognized the
ramifications of denying any fixed basis for moral truths.
Re:
The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted
by JimC
on 12 Dec 2013 at 8:03AM
Lawrence
Auster's blog? I'm not sure what's to be gained by selectively
copying and pasting comments from his blog (or any blog, come to
that).
Anyway,
the false assumption that Nietzsche was a nihilist is explained here
Re:
The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted
by A Religious Apologist on 14 Dec 2013 at 12:42AM
What
can hopefully be accomplished is an on topic discussion of its
points.
From Nietzsche's brutally honest perspective, his life's work
ultimately had no meaning and all his efforts were wasted. If there
is no objective meaning in anything, ultimately what is left?
Honestly confronting such apparently drove him mad.
The main point
ultimately is that without recognition of objective truth--that which
I have referred to as a "higher moral frame of reference"
or "HMFR"--all values are ultimately rendered meaningless.
Moral relativism is a caricature of these absolute objective values
and all it can offer is temporary expediency based on hypocrisy,
cynicism, and ultimately no basis in what might objectively be
considered as "moral" whatsoever. Any claim to the contrary
would be disingenuous.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:21AM
There are at least six forms of nihilism.
I can only guess why you'd use the right wing political blog of a self-confessed "racialist" as a source for philosophy when there are so many academic sources.
Nietzsche suffered from dementia towards the end of his life. So do many people. Nihilism does not cause dementia.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:23AM
If you believe so--or even if you don't--please respond on topic to the points in my posit--thanks!
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:31AM
I did. You've copied and pasted text from a political blog which aims to demonstrate that Nietzsche went insane because of Nihilism.
It's laughable.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:35AM
So when you state that "it's laughable" are we to assume that you have no other on topic response on the matter and tacitly concede your inability to do so?
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:42AM
As I've explained - your apparent adoption of the idea that Nietzsche's so called " meltdown" was the result of nihilism is laughable because Nietzsche had a mental illness that is in no way connected to nihilism or any other " ism".
What else is there to say?
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 14 Dec 2013 at 1:52AM
What else is there to say? How about at least attempting to justify your perspective vis a vis the issue posited rather than once again invite us to accept your unsupported word on the matter? Don't worry--I won't follow your rabbit trails and will continue to bring up in context all matters that you are unable to provide a coherent response to.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 14 Dec 2013 at 8:50AM
The "issue posited" is that Nietzsche had a "meltdown" because of his nihilism.
He didn't. He had dementia. Specifically it was frontotemporal dementia (also known as Pick's Disease).
That's the premise of the text you've been copying and pasting. The premise is totally false. The argument has collapsed.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 16 Dec 2013 at 12:07AM
There has been no collapse in the argument whatsoever--attributing Pict's Disease to Nietzsche is purely speculative on the part of his apologists. I note that you provide no backup whatsoever to your claim, and once again merely suggest (or, rather, you insist) that we "take your word" for it. So let's get back to the subject at hand.
There is the issue of contributing factors leading to dementia--or meltdowns--or even your posited and unsupported diagnosis--in the first place. As I pointed out, Nietzsche was nothing if not brutally honest (within his personal limitations and that of his perspective). Much like what you have offered in your arguments, he initially assumed that there was some sort of meaning to be found in life beyond the fixed moral standards of a higher moral frame of reference. All he had to do--from his viewpoint--was redefine such. Unlike what you have offered--that being the suggestion that democracy can redefine such values at the whim of the majority, yet still expect people to offer themselves up at extreme personal cost to defend such--Nietzsche suggested that only the elite "ubermensch" with power at his disposal ought to be the arbiter or moral standards over the majority, to whom he imputed neither value nor wisdom.
Nietzsche's own apologists have acknowledged his elitism and disparagement of (essentially) the "rabble" of the majority, but I will digress for a moment and address your alternate and unsupported theory. If you would recast Nietzsche to be "benevolent" in some way in terms of advocating enlightenment and freedom from previous strictures (that is to say, rejecting a morality referenced to and rooted in a HMFR), what happens when one faces the ultimate reality of such a perspective whereby NOTHING has fixed meaning? Nietzsche was both passionate and earnest--actually obsessively so--and I believe he had the intellectual honesty to ultimately pursue his perspective--over time--to its logical end, to the undoing of his sanity.
What must have increasingly dawned on Nietzsche in his perspective was that if nothing whatsoever had meaning, then that applies to EVERYTHING! His life's work had no meaning. ANYTHING rooted in ANY moral standards has no meaning. Much like you--who presumes that many of the hard won moral standards of your own particular society and culture are rather universal human attributes not rooted in their Christian heritage, despite ample evidence to the contrary--an honest conclusion from your perspective would recognize that even basic moral standards have no meaning! There is, in fact, nothing to appeal to in referencing "morality" even in the most basic of personal exchanges or considerations otherwise. There is no objective basis for civilization in the first place minus its being rooted in an objective HMFR. We are to be reduced to an immediate response-reward state, and hope that a more powerful individual won't just settle the matter by seizing everything and killing any opposed to their will. In short, we have a microcosm of the brutal devolution of all atheist regimes in spite of whatever (illusory from their perspective) moral basis and sense of justice that brought them to power in the first place.
Welcome to the reality of logical conclusions!
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 16 Dec 2013 at 12:24AM
Nietzsche's dementia (aka Pick's disease) is not speculative. It is a diagnosis based on his medical notes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17087793/
Your misrepresentation of Nietzsche's views on nihilism (or whoever's view it was that you copied) was previously dealt with here... http://tinyurl.com/RGFSMCL-013
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 16 Dec 2013 at 12:32AM
So you claim. Without getting into counter claims--whose basis you refuse to address and whose basis I refuse to be distracted from--what of the points in my current posit? Do you actually have any on topic response on such to offer?
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 16 Dec 2013 at 9:07AM
My response to the points in your current posit is:
1) Nietzsche suffered from dementia therefore the argument that his mental breakdown was caused by nihilism is factually incorrect and, frankly, a joke. I'm beginning to wonder if Lawrence Auster was being satirical. It's also hard to tell if you're copying the comments of people who've responded to the blog or just his comments. You seem to be cherry picking the bits and pieces that support your argument - but having said that it's impossible to decipher what your argument is. Which ironically is also a criticism of Nietzsche!
2) You (or rather the bits of the right wing blog that you chose to copy) misrepresented Nietzsche's views on nihilism, as I explained here... http://tinyurl.com/RGFSMCL-013
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 16 Dec 2013 at 7:21PM
So in other words--other than your usual call for a priori prejudice and dismissal of a viewpoint you disagree with, you have nothing on topic to offer other than an appeal to "take your word for it"?
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 16 Dec 2013 at 7:54PM
I gave you a link which explains the diagnosis of Nietzsche's dementia, and I've given you an explanation of Nietzsche's position on nihilism complete with citations and cross-references. If you need more information, let me know.
But the more you talk about me, the more you demonstrate that you've lost the argument.
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by A Religious Apologist on 16 Dec 2013 at 8:02PM
Rather, the one who fails to remain on topic loses the argument--but nice try! I have presented points which you apparently have no on topic answer to. Perhaps you will reconsider and keep the dialog on topic?
Re: The three stages of nihilism and Nietzsche's meltdown
Posted by JimC on 16 Dec 2013 at 8:06PM
It's odd that you can't explain what those points are!
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